Omeros: Discussion Board

From Discussion Board in Blackboard facility at Brooklyn College

On First Looking into Omeros

[a sampler from opening exchanges among student readers at Brooklyn College in class with Professor John Van Sickle, Fall semester 2002]

Current Forum: STAGE #1: Responses
Date: Fri Sep 13 2002 9:42 pm
Author: Castellano, Kelliann <Kelbell428@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Stage 1 Response
It's hard to reply without sounding repetitive, but I do want to start off by also thanking everyone for the background information they have been providing. I think Walcott is trying to show us how destructive humans are to nature. "When it came back, it give us the spirit to turn into murderers." (p. 3) He describes cutting down trees, which they needed to make the canoes, almost as if it is a war between humans and nature. Is this the war that Bijou is speaking about?? I totally agree with Alberto, everyone seems to be getting a lot more insight out of the book then I have, but after all your input and rereading it…I am getting there.

Date: Fri Sep 13 2002 10:18 pm

Author: Cummins, Ligoria <LIGORIAC@aol.com>

Subject: Walcott love for his homeland

Opening scene, brings two of the main characters into view. Philoctete, and Achilles. They appear to be cutting down the trees to make canoes, agaisnt their will. Infact it seems that goes against their very core to do so. I get this impression from lines 9-14, on page3. These men actually have to be half drunk to harm the trees.
Additionally, they seem to regard the trees as gods. This is evident in the very words that the poet uses. "He swayed back the blade and hacked the limbs from the dead gods,.."Walcot could have easily used the word cut, instead he used the word hacked to show how much it was against the mens will to cut down the gods (trees), that they had to be as ruthless as possible.
Then, he adds"The bearded elders endured the decimation of their tribe without uttering a syllabLe of that language they had uttered as one nation" This shows that the people of the island loved and respected their trees vis a vis flora and fauna, and if it was not for westernization coming to the island they would never have dared such acts against nature, line 12-15 pg 6. Also perhaps their need for new canoes.
This westernization seems to be against the will of people such as Philocete and Achilles who seem to be continent being fishermen. The opening line 1-3 on pg 3 gives me this impression, as Philocete smiles for the camera, but he/poet beleive that the tourists are trying to take his soul with their camera.bThis is an old belief of many of my comtemporary islanders.
These few instances as seen and expressed through Walcott vivid expression, seem to suggest to me that even though he may be well travelled, he would prefer no other place than hishomeland. This is furhter backed up by other instances later in the book but I will save those comments for another time.

Current Forum: STAGE #1: Responses
Date: Fri Sep 13 2002 10:35 pm
Author: Brathwaite, Evan <sbrath7549@aol.com>
Yes I believe in an earlier post I mentioned that Achille's cutting of he trees bears a direct resemblance to the murderous rage of Achilles in the Iliad. Try reading Books 16-22 of the Iliad, this will provide you with the necessary background to make effective comparisons between the events in the Iliad and Omeros regarding war and conflict of Achilles/Achille. You can also look at the struggle of Aeneas and Turnus in Virgil's Aeneid. This works for me. The Iliad(Poem of Troy) is a story of battles, conquest and destruction all of which are synonymous with war. In Walcott's Omeros, it appears that war itself is a significant theme for the beginnings of an acrimonious conflict between Achille and Hector. I seemed to instinctively notice this as I was reading through Omeros. It is quite possible that it may eventually become a major plot element of the poem. Further reading and critical analysis will prove or disprove my hypothesis.

Current Forum: STAGE #1: Responses	Read 11 times
Date: Sat Sep 14 2002 12:27 pm
Author: Zubair, Nasir <tunasir@telocity.com>
Subject: Theism in Omeros; mono vs. poly
As I pointed out the hints of Christianity in my other post, I'll try taking it one step further. Omeros is set in a monotheist context, Christianity. This is very obvious from the following: "With his cutlass he made a swidft sign of the cross..." Ch.1 ii, pg. 6 "The priest sprinkled them with a bell, then he made the swift's sign." Ch. 1 ii, pg. 8 And then more clearly stated at the begining of chapter 2 that "... they have only Christian names." But within all these monotheistic signs, one could easily see the glimps of Homer's polytheism. Trees are referred to as gods on numerouse occasions. If one is willing to stretch the meaning of Walcott's poetry, one can also think that he gives hints about the fall of old gods (Greek Mythology) and rise of Christianity. "... leaving a blue space for a single God where the old gods stood before." Ch. 1 i, pg. 5 If I remember my grammer correctly, the capitalization of "G" in "God" happens only where their is only one God, as in case of Christianity, Islam or Judaism. "He swayed back the blade, and hacked the limbs from the dead god...", Ch. 1 ii, pg. 6 Greeks didn't think that their gods could die, this line suggests otherwise. It either could be one religion negating the beliefs of the other one or just that old gods have been forgotten (not literally dead). This is the material I have found through the first chapter only. I'd appreciate any more input on this topic.

Current Forum: STAGE #1: Responses	Read 12 times
Date: Sat Sep 14 2002 1:55 pm
Author: Brathwaite, Evan <sbrath7549@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Theism in Omeros; mono vs. poly
I have also noticed several occurences of Monotheistic beliefs in the poem, but they are subltle and can only be discovered through keen scrutiny and critical analysis of the verse. Expanding upon what Nasir has begun here are some examples which strengthen the argument that Walcott's Omeros is set in a Christian Monotheisitic world. "There were these pillars that fell, leaving a blue space for a single God where the old gods stood before". Page 5 From this it is safe to conclude that Walcott describes the eventual demise of polytheism(a paganistic religon) and then the subsequent rise of modern monotheistic Christian beliefs. This line of verse is symbolic of the death of the ancient(old gods) polytheistic religon and the birth of monotheism(one God). The blue space represents the large expanse of the heavens which is the permanent domain of God. "The bearded elders" are perhaps the old gods of classical Greek antiquity who were depicted in Greek art as bearded men, i.e. Zeus, Ares, Posiedon etc. Page 6

Current Forum: STAGE #1: Responses
Date: Sat Sep 14 2002 2:18 pm
Author: Brathwaite, Evan <sbrath7549@aol.com>
Subject: Ma Kilman and Seven Seas
Having analyzed and discussed the characters Achille and Philoctetes, I think we should commence a discussion of Ma Kilman and Seven Seas. These characters should be given some attention because they too play a significant role in the development of the plot. Seven Seas an elderly blind man, appears to live alone with his dog. Ma Kilman attends to his needs and also helps him to retrieve his monthly veteran's compensation from the Post Office, Look on Page 18 for this particular line. Does this mean Seven Seas had served in the military? Perphas in the Navy? "Ma Kilman saw Philoctete hobbling in the street, so she rose from her corner window, and laid out the usual medicine for him, acajou, vaseline and and ice." Page 18 In Chapter III Bk II Walcott introduces us to Ma Kilman, the owner of the village No-Pain Cafe. She seems to posses a natural ablilty for healing the sick. Ma Kilman provides care to Philoctete's ankle wound, but unfortunately she is not able to completely cure it. She acts as a surrogate mother figure to Philoctete in this scene. I would like to hear other opinions on this.

Current Forum: STAGE #1: Responses
Date: Sat Sep 14 2002 3:24 pm
Author: wolseley, lorianne <lori_ann@hotmail.com>
Subject: insight?
Once again I must apologize for my late response but I feel really confident in saying that it would not happen again. In reading the class responses to the first stage I must comment that this class (the students) is (are) brilliant in the way that they interpet and comprehend the story/plot of the first stage. It amazes me, and once I read your postings then re-read the pages I must admit I always say "oh I should have read or picked up on that?" Well anyway back to Omerus. From the opening chapters (stage 1) I noticed a number of different things that I would try to address without sounding repetive from the rest of the group. Walcots appears to be being Greek characters of famous epic poems to a semi-modern Caribbean country. Walcot's use of imagery and diction makes me feel that I am present as the story unflows. Walcot's use of language (a type of broken english dialect is amazing. (I am also from the Caribbean and I am use to hearing language spoken like that but I am not use to reading language like that --- I find it simply amazing). i have also noticed alot parallels between Walcots and Homer and as I wrote in my first responses to the reading I think it is brilliant use homer's style in contempory works today.

Current Forum: STAGE #1: Responses	Read 12 times
Date: Sat Sep 14 2002 5:24 pm
Author: Ramnarine, Nirmala <vidiyawati@hotmail.com>
Subject: Stage One
Sorry again for my late input but, thanks to all of you and your insights I have understood the reading. To start off as I read the first words of Walcott I understand that this story is set in a more contemporary period as compared to its sister works which is the basis of the Greek mythological era. As you all have read and understood there is a great comparison to Greek mythology, where to a point Walcott brings the actually characters to his story, for example there is Achilles, a warrior at heart yet, very soft when it comes to cutting down trees. This is seen on the first few pages where Achilles and Philoctete are cutting down trees yet, they must be totally drunk to do so because if they were sober they would have never thought about doing such a thing out of their own free will. As for the more modern view, one can see Walcott's attempt to do so when he speaks of ".... the winged horse..." (pg. 14) which is interpreted to be the symbol for a gas station. Only in a modern society will anyone think of such a comparison much less a gas station. When it comes to exactly what religion the characters follow, according to what I understand from the book, I believe they are Christians; however, Walcott does make some comparisons to the polytheistic Greek religion. Agreeing with Evan, I also see the change from a polytheistic idea to a monotheistic idea, as it says on pg. 5 "there were these pillars that fell leaving a blue space for a single God where the old gods stood before." You see here that at one time there were many gods and now due to them living in a modern period the old gods have disappeared and the new God has appeared to take its place. In addition to my understanding of stage one, there are also a few things that confuse me. I am not too sure but, on pg.12 the last stanza, Is Walcott or Seven seas doing an invocation if it is an invocation at all?

Current Forum: STAGE #1: Responses
Date: Sun Sep 15 2002 5:01 pm
Author: JVS, (professor) <jvsickle@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
Subject: Re: Stage # 1... What I think
very cogent on all points!!

Current Forum: STAGE #1: Responses
Date: Sun Sep 15 2002 5:19 pm
Author: JVS, (professor) <jvsickle@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
Subject: Re: Homer and Virgil ... from New England??
now their names common for farmers & not only in New England, theiir poetry forgotten, naturalized.

Current Forum: STAGE #1: Responses
Date: Sun Sep 15 2002 5:21 pm
Author: JVS, (professor) <jvsickle@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
Subject: Re: useful points made here
properly modest, yet clear & well focused on important issues posed by the text

Current Forum: STAGE #1: Responses
Date: Sun Sep 15 2002 5:26 pm
Author: JVS, (professor) <jvsickle@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
Subject: Re: Stage # 1. Antigone in Boston
If you look at the chart of Book 1 under COURSE DOCUMENTS, you will see that II.iii (pp. 14-15) takes place in Boston in the apartment of a girl named Antigone, who is Greek (looks like an old Greek painting) & homesick for her sea, just as Walcott is homesick for his. They make love. For pages in stages, see new guide (ANNOUNCEMENT)